the dow had a great day. we're going to close with another record on the dow and another record on the s & p 500. google shares are above 900 as they've launched the music thing. i don't know what it is. this guy probably knows. i'm sure there must have been a good reason why only the two and from parts were -- >> yes, you didn't want us to see the detail. >> how does the president say with a straight face you americans should trust the government. >> i'm going to stop talking now. >> mr. chairman, would you inform the witness as to the rules of this committee. >> too consistent with the way in which you conduct yourself as a member of congress. it's unacceptable and it's shameful. >> my question, are you willing to release the e-mails? >> i forgot to comment to go under the second part. >> saying i can't comment has become the fifth amendment of politics for this administration. >> man oh, man, here we go again.

it looks like the barbecues are coming early, another grilling, only this time it's not just at the white house. welcome, everybody. i'm neil cavuto. it looks like jay has got some company on the barbie because right about now, it is holder on the hot seat. under fire overt ap, irs, so far no one punished. the house speaker not at all pleased. >> my question isn't about who is going to resign. my question is who is going to jail over this scandal? >> to the former democratic governor of virginia, doug wilder, says the president needs to get in front of this thing and fast. but governor, he seems to be running out of time and fast. are you surprised how quickly this is escalating and even the number of critical democrats who have emerged? >> to some degree, neil. but you've got to know that as emmerson said years ago, they ride mankind.

so you can't ever anticipate what's going to happen. i think what is most surprising is the lack of immediate and quick response and as you pointed out, democrats are saying themselves, wait a minute. what's going on? the election is over. it's time to govern. and i think many americans are becoming so disenchanted with politicians on both sides of the aisle, and what emanates and comes from washington, they're just sickened of it and that's bad for the country, that's bad for our leadership and the world. >> what i did notice at the hearing, the part i did catch with eric holder, governor, is that there were quite a few critical democratic congressmen saying not necessarily what did the president know, but how the heck did this happen and that there was very little to fall back. either the president, you know, was ignorant of what was happening or he was right involved in the middle of it. and that raises issues about

leadership. to that issue and how you think the president is leading through this, what do you think? >> you put your hand right on it. leadership defines itself. it means to do exactly what the word says. to lead, to be in front. and i think a lot of people in this country are looking for a president to not only say it's outrageous, but express the surprise at what has taken place, to show animatedly that look, i never knew anything about this. but if i did and when i do, this is what's going to happen. heads will roll. we're not going to wait 'til next year when it's not a story anymore. we're going to get to it. we're going to hit it and we're going to let the american people know. it's so important for this president because he promised transparency. he promised what we would call the clarity. he likewise said that it would be the most transparent in the nation. now, obviously when those of us

who have supported the president say anything, even constructively critical, people don't like to hear it. but the american people want to hear. they deserve to hear and i say this to you, they will hear the truth. it's going to come out, so it's best for the president get in front of it. lead. >> part of leading is maybe -- this might be against his inner dna to show emotions and he famously is not that way. love the no drama obama tag line because it shows someone who doesn't get agitated or excited. but do you think that now is hurting him, that it risks making him look aloof, detached, out of it, what? >> that's the point i was trying to make earlier when i said if you are surprised by this, you need to show it. for instance, i recall things that have happened when i've either been governor or mayor and these things come up in the administration. when i heard it, people could see what my real feelings were

about it as a result of my reaction. and i don't put it on. it's real. so to the extent that the president has controlled his emotions, that's fine to some degree. but to the extent that things like this can happen and he shows no more emotion than he has shown to this point, three days to respond? in one of these? that is far too long and so yes, it has to be better people advising him to what to say and do and better leadership on his behalf in terms of getting out in front. >> governor, richard nixon once famously said of the watergate hearings, i gave them the sword and gosh knows they used it. i'm paraphrasing the last part. did this president give them a chain saw? >> well, to the extent that the chain saw you speak of, is that what you mean -- i don't think it's comparable to richard nixon at this point. i think the american people want

to give the benefit of the doubt as far as they can relative to all of the facts, all of the accusations and all of the things that might be printed from the left or from the right. but they're going to come a time when they're going to say okay, mr. president, look us into the eye and tell us exactly what you know, what happened and what you're going to do about it. no comparison with nixon or no one else. real comparisons should be with obama. what does obama think? what do you really want to do? let us know and show it. >> if we haven't heard or seen that, sir, by this weekend, then what? >> that would be more doubt. there will be more pessimism. there will be less cooperation between the parties. congress will almost grind to a halt in terms of any legislation being passed. and it will spill over and over and affect not only the things that are happening in washington, it will affect you and me and the american people and we should not have to abhor

that. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> this guy named doug, not the only democrat having questions about this president. why charlie is ready to wrangle with him, too. the congressman will be my special guest at 8 p.m. never mind it looks like the irs broke the law thousands of new irs agents are still set to enforce the health care law. just as we are hearing that the white house wants to spend a billion bucks on innovation to strengthen that healthcare law to oklahoma senator coburn, to now stop. very good to have you. this is still going, you know, full throttle to get the irs involved in the implementation of enforcing a lot of these financial provisions and cost provisions within the new health care law. do you think they should slow down on that or what? >> there is 49 separate areas of health care law that the irs,

who has proven itself not to be impartial in terms of political philosophy, probing into every aspect of american people's lives. so i think the question remains open. the fact is we've had severe abuse of power ongoing with this irs denial of appropriate benefits. these are really serious times and the really sad part about it is as americans we're already pretty cynical about the effectiveness of washington and the agencies that we have set up and here is one that we're supposed to be able to trust and obviously you can't. and i think a lot more is going to come out. we're going to have to get to the bottom of it. when the former commissioner of the irs actually knew what was going on and testified that he didn't, you know, that's at the top. and that speaks terribly for all

the good people who work for the irs. so i think there ought to be a timeout, especially with the delicate nature of everything that the irs is going to be asking of people in terms of the 49 different areas where they're going to be probing you whether or not you've complied with the affordable care act. so i think it's a dangerous time, one if they go on and do it, whether or not they're going to get proper answers back. why would you send them the information about your health care if you don't trust that they're going to keep it intact? >> that was one of the original concerns, even prior to the indications going after conservative groups with the irs having that much more responsibility over health care law, thousands of agents hired to potentially police it in these 49 different areas. do you think that was -- that that's going to be reconsidered now, period? whether it goes by the wayside or not? >> i don't know. but there is definitely, in my

mind, a cover-up on benghazi, a direct intention not to share the facts with the american people, and i think that complicates everything else. benghazi's far from over. the people who distorted what actually happened and knew better and it's not the c.i.a. who did that, by the way. they were very straightforward with what they put out initially. so we have some real problems right now with the confidence, and the shame of it, neil, is we're prime to really grow. if the congress and -- what we lack is leadership right now. if the president would lead on solving the big problems in our country, everybody knows what they are, reforming the tax code, fixing and saving medicare, fixing and saving social security. >> you think all that is out the window now? >> well, i don't think it's out the window, but leadership is about standing up and creating a

possibility for something positive to happen. and we're not seeing that and my hope is, you know, the president's probably not connected to any of this directly, but he absolutely is responsible for all of it. and he needs to be on the offensive, leading on the real problems of the country and one of the real problems is how do you reestablish confidence that the government is not so big that they cannot keep from violating your privacy rights, your tax rights, and your personal property rights? the one thing that i'm worried about, this smells an awful lot like chicago style politics. where you don't care what the rules are. you're out to go after your enemies for anything. and i'm not saying they did it. but i certainly don't like the way -- when kathleen sebelius is now hitting up the very people she regulates, it may not be illegal, but it is certainly unethical. it is inappropriate. it's wrong. it may not be illegal, but it's wrong to do that.

>> senator, thank you very much. >> you bet. >> if you were watching this show, now you know. before the fire. before conservative groups were targeted by the irs, there was frank getting audits from the irs. he was cleared because he had the money to fight this nonsense. told us exclusively. wait 'til you hear about all the others who didn't have the money and just said the hell with this nonsense. for now, we leave you with the acting irs chief. >> can you tell us why you never told congress? >> i don't have a comment. >> that -- >> i'll be here on friday. >> sir, senator hatch says you purposely misled him by not informing him about this. why is that? >> he's not going to be able to do an interview. >> why didn't you tell the truth when you were asked directly by congress?

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>> they were just after my taxes. that's what they were after. >> neil: you were fully exonerated. you didn't have to pay any extra? >> no change, no penalties, no fines. no change to my taxes. >> neil: just to defend yourself, you spent tens of thousands of dollars? >> almost $80,000. >> neil: $80,000. >> about $25,000 per audit. >> neil: there was nothing wrong. and it wasn't just frank. turns out frank was just the appetizer. a subject of two irs audits and a labor department audit, all of which he won, but not before paying more than 80 grand in attorney and accountant phis just to -- fees just to respond. he had the dough. many conservative people did not. more than a few just gave up. and thatey said it wasn't worth the hassle.

peter w o a joins us now. peter, you were nitpick to do death. plain what happened. >> yes, sir. thank you for having me. well, we're like a lot of other grassroots groups. we got together and, you know, got beyond having rallies and said we need to form up formally if we're going to be engaged. we consulted with attorneys and cpa's on the proper steps and we filed all the paper, hired attorneys and stuff, filed the paperwork and submitted to the irs and then the waiting game started. >> neil: the waiting game we're told typically for this type of status, it takes anywhere from six to 12 months. we're told in this case, they were giving you guys a heads up, try years. when you gave information and then the irs would come back and want more information and the questionnaire, did you know, did your attorneys go, wait a minute, this is the run around?

>> yeah. well, for the first year to half or so where they just kept losing it or stalling says we're not ready, we just thought it was typical bloated bureaucracy and inefficient. they're not getting it done. when they came around the end of late 2011, early 2012 with the intrusive questionnaires andor s when we realized we were probably being singled out or scrutinized different lie than everybody else. but we didn't really have any recourse. the attorneys we consulted with, they were like, well, we don't see what choice you have but to comply or give up. >> neil: so you gave up? >> and ultimately we did. we went another six months going back and forth with the information that they wanted. i mean, they wanted stuff like -- they wanted the blog posts that we had. they literally wanted the copies of speeches of anybody that spoke at one of our -- whether it was a meeting or rally.

and the one that really kind of caught us off guard was they wanted the names and addresses of donors and our board and also the employers of our donors and our board. we thought that was overstepping a little bit. as a matter of fact, we even had a board meeting where we gave the opportunities to those people who wanted to resign from the board to avoid the scrutiny. nobody did, but we made that opportunity available. >> neil: amazing. separately, peter, we're learning that some we're still justifying targeting tea party groups and the name of civil rights, julian bond said on another news network this about going after tea party groups. i want your reaction to this. >> i think it's entirely legitimate to look at the tea party. i mean, they're a group of people who are admittedly racist, who are overtly political, who tried as best they can to harm president obama in every way they can. >> neil: what do you think of that?

>> well, neil, first of all, admittedly racist? i don't know where they get that from 'cause none of them are racist and we have members of all races in our group. but that's really not the point here. the point is, we're just regular folks who want our voices heard. we're tired of watching the lobbyists and the special interests up there funnel their money and buy their way to have whatever they have. we just wanted to gather, have our voices heard and educate our fellow citizens about the issues. we went to the attorneys about this and said, how do we do this legally? we didn't ask for this. we didn't want to get involved with the irs. we said what, are the steps for us to be a legal entity to get out and advocate for the things that we believe in or educate people in the things we believe in? then we got on this path. i think the story -- we don't care if they look at us. it's just that they treat us all fairly and in the same way. i think the issue here is not that he has a prejudice or preconceived notion that we're prejudiced, but this is average,

everyday americans who just want to have their voices heard and when they run up against the big government, we sort of come to the place where hey, they can be as heavy handed as they want, be as intrusive as they want and intimidate people i don't make any decisions about who to hire without going to angie's list first. you'll find reviews on home repair to healthcare written by people just like you. with angie's list, i know who to call, and i know the results will be fantastic. angie's list -- reviews you can trust.

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>> neil: welcome back. first of all, i want to apologize to any of you offended, peter of the tea party who looked like he was cut off there just at the end of that segment. we have these things called hard breaks. it's a commercial coming down the pike whether we like it or not. we love all our advertiser, but it's like ironclad and it just happens, kicks in, so i did not mean to jump on peter. as i don't any guest when that happens. it's my fault for not timing it better. so i apologize. in the meantime, taxing and troubling news that the irs didn't only get in

conservatives' faces, it got in their facebook. apparently extending its reach into their facebook accounts, twitter accounts, e-mail accounts, you name it. agents were digging through it. another reason why legal eagle jordan sekulow says those targeted come now more ample ground to sue over this. you add this up, the shear bredth of this and you have to wond what are is happening here and whether you can ever sue a government entity without it being an uphill fight. does this make it less of an uphill fight? >> there are organizations where i work, so we do these cases, we don't charge our clients. that's key. this is what got the irs in trouble is that people like peter got to talk to each other and they figured out because they're grassroots activist, wait, this was a conspiracy. they all got these questions. if we weren't there to do the legal work, these are not group that have budgets to hire you

lawyers. they needed someone that will help take on the irs. so now that the irs admitted to wrongdoing but didn't admit to all of the wrongdoing and didn't take corrective action, we still have ten clients who are still pending review, some who have been waiting since 2011. they are still waiting. none have been denied through this process. remember that in the inspector general's report. so we're going to -- >> neil: but the irs is dragging its feet and now it's clear in that they go slow, might have had the desired intention of getting groups to quit and say no more. it isn't worth the effort or trouble or expense. not everyone has some of the deep pockets, some targeted groups had. so they just quit. they're in line as a legal ground, right? >> they've got legal grounds, so we're already talking to a couple of clients who did withdraw. and even though they had us handling their work because they didn't want to take on the irs. the irs is asking them for every facebook communication, every

tweet they send out, what their membership lists are, their donor lists are, homes and addresses. one of the greatest questions was, will anyone be running for political office in the future? anyone who is associated with the board of directors, as if you have to tell them what you're thinking about possibly doing. so we've got now out of our 27 clients, 15 we got approved. ten we're still waiting on. two drew. some are ready to take legal action and i think that will be filed as other as next week. >> neil: let's say the lawyer is representing me, the irs, i can say, they're going to ask me, do you have any files on liberal groups or left leaning groups where you strung them through the same type of process? then the irs can come back and say, see, we do this for everybody that if you're seeking tax exempt status, we run you through the wringer bossier the irs and we want to make sure everyone who should be paying taxes pays taxes. and no one gets away with not paying taxes. that might be what they might hang their hat on, finding a

liberal group or left wing group that was treated the same way. right? >> finding a, liberal group wouldn't count here, though. the problem here is the conspiracy. the fact that out of four different irs offices, we posted the letters that are basically each the same, the questionnaires. not just cincinnati, dc, the headquarters of the irs. you've got also two in california. if they showed that and liberals showed that, they could make a case. but if they she one or it groups that may have had trouble, well sometimes groups have trouble. the irs is allowed to investigate people. and investigate you if you put something that's flagged. one or two, that's not widespread. that's not a conspiracy. different case. >> neil: sounds like you're on this case. jordan, a pleasure. thank you. >> thank you. >> neil: this just in, google stock is closing in on 1,000 bucks, even if its co-founder is having trouble speaking. it makes you wonder what happens when all the washington guys

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>> neil: so far not so 1973 because if these crises enveloping the white house are the star of another watergate in the making, there certainly not convincing investors. take a look at this. stocks continuing to soar even

as these scandals grow more. why is that? how the heck is that? let's ask teddy, one of the smartest guys i know on all things money, joining us from the new york stock exchange. it might still materialize to be an enveloping crisis that gets watergatelike. but it's not showing itself yet. >> i think we have two distinct paths to go down, neil. the first path is clearly the obama administration's got some real political issues that seem to be consuming them at the moment. not one, not two, but three. and i think to the degree that generates a degree of gridlock and the prospect of further gridlock and that the president becomes a lame duck president, perhaps a year or two before he would normally be a lame duck president, i think the market likes that. but the second path clearly is much more serious and if you are suggesting or if -- or if these events, if any of these events really start to take on negative

legs and start to actually threaten his administration, then i think it's going to be another entirely different story and quite frankly, as we speak now, i don't think people are quite connected those dots yet. >> neil: i agree. but i should say hearings usually bring out the best and the worst of people's fears and the idea that it was a political kabala against richard nixon, started changing changing when d like there was some matters that stuck. and of course, we're looking at how those hearings are going down in the house, sam irvin, revelation of the white house taping system and on and on and on. but i do want to show a chart that i know is hard for you to see where you are. but it shows how the markets faired during those watergate hearings that started four decades ago friday. very different case, very different environment. much cheaper market, i might point out. volatile swings back then that were punctuated by revelations

and developments in those hearings. could it ever get to the same stage here, and is the differentiator the fact that the economy is stronger now. >> there is a lot of moving parts to that statement. clearly in that time period, we had 70% tax rates, for example, income tax rates. we have capital gains rates of 36 1/2%. we had interest rates that were 17, 18%. we had an entirely different economy. but i think it's an interesting parallel because if you look at the time period that that included that 73-74 period. don't forget from 73-74, neil, the market traded down from approximately 1,000 on the dow to somewhere below 700 -- excuse me, 570, 560. so the market was down over 50% from the trading highs, to

trading lows. we have actually gone through a similar period now between 2000 and 2013 where the s & p basically traded down well over 50%, if you look at the time period of 2007, late to early march of 2009 from its trading highs. the time period not quite the same, but it's about 13 or 14 years. but the real difference now, i mean, we're getting a little far afield from your original question, but the real difference now is are the pieces in place to basically drive the market the way the market drove when reagan got elected from 1981 to 82, up to 2000 where the dow went to 1,000 to 10 or 11,000. went up ten times. now we're coming out of a similar trading pattern, similar percentage losses from highs to lows. but the economy today is a lot different. and the economy was a lot different when nixon was president.

>> neil: this could be the saving grace for this president, regardless of what happens, that the economy is better. he might weather it based on that. but we shall see. always a pleasure. thank you. >> my pleasure. >> neil: they bag, you gag? airlines rake not raking in 3 12 billion in baggage fees. fliers are paying more and happier than they've ever been, or at least the happiest in seven years. that's an airline satisfaction response. lee has done his share of traveling, he will know if people are gung ho and happy. are they? >> i'm not really sure who they interviewed on the survey, but i know as a frequent flyer, i fly a quarter million miles a year and i'm not very happy with the airlines. >> neil: are they happier? you visit all the countries on earth. god bless you. but in this country, how do we stack up with flyers in other countries, or experiences you've had? >> the american carriers don't even compare to international

carriers. for instance, i think the best airline in the world is singapore airlines. service -- >> neil: i would agree with that. >> airline, the airport is amazing. everything about the u.s. airiers i think is far below standards. >> neil: they all do their own version of nickel and diming you. we've seen them carried to an art form. for you as a fly, what were kind of things you girded yourself for when you flew -- what kind of things did you just accept and move on? >> well, unfortunately, you kind of have to accept the baggage fee situation now adays. i mean, ten, 15 years ago, pre9-11, used to get good fares. you are don't get that anymore. you have to accept the fact that you're going to pay at least $1,000 to fly to europe. if you get a deal for $800, you're pretty happy. but that barely happens anymore. you have to accept that everything is more expensive. you're going to get nickel and dimed, whether it's baggage, food. they're talking about charging for the bathroom. come on. >> neil: you just go before you go. if you're going to asia, that kind of limits you.

>> yeah, 15-hour flight. >> neil: so you don't buy this survey that says folks are plain old happiest they've been in seven years? >> i can't imagine it. i mean, i saw the survey. they interviewed people who flew at least once on a north american carrier last year. it wasn't necessarily frequent flyers. people fly all the time. people i think are becoming more accepting of the fees, which i think is set because what are you going to do? you have to accept it, unfortunately. you're not going to walk to california. >> neil: yeah. not yet. you should know we have a news alert in that jd powers reported, i am the most admired anchor on the planet. okay. anyway, could you believe that? no way. anyway, not me, the -- anyway. david stockman is furious. you hear about this? not over these crises consuming the white house, what they're diverting attention away from. why the guy ronald reagan took

to the wood shed were all in deep shed if we let washington forget a far more ominous ticking time bomb. tonight on fbn, tonight charlie now. if you think dave is blunt, wait until you hear when gasparino gets going and going and going. [ musick ] i knew there were a lot of tech jobs

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president is meeting with top treasury officials over this whole irs thing and where it stance, where -- stands, where the investigation stand, that's all we know. we don't know how many and the exact principles in the meeting, just that the president is meeting. charlie gasparino is here. what do you think? >> there is a sort -- listen, i'm not saying what they did was right. it was wrong, targeting certain groups is wrong. but there is the kind of absurdity and i'm not the only one who said this, i think juan williams said this and i agree with this, all these sort of political groups are like 501 c 3s, nonprofit, i mean, it's not like they are charities. these groups have specific purposes, you know. juan brought this up, 'cause he and i are always attacked by media matters, which is scary. he's more left than i am. but he's a fair minded guy. why is media matters treated like a charity? this is obviously a political

action. >> neil: maybe i could see the point if indeed there was the same -- thing with both. >> here is what's happening with the obama presidency and whether the left and whether my friends and i have a lot of friends at the "new york times" will like it or not, they're looking very nixonian lately. the stuff involving the ap reporters, this stuff, you know. listen, it's one thing to play hard ball and they know how to play hard ball. barak obama knows how to compare mitt romney to a murderer because he worked at bain and bain laid off some guy and three years later -- >> neil: what if it's not him doing it? what if these the people? the end doesn't justify it. but it does call into question the leadership. >> it's the same thing with nixon. i don't believe nixon particularly -- check me on my facts -- did he order the watergate break in or set the agenda or the tone and cover it up? that's what we have here. >> neil: one could wonder whether the tone encouraged people to do the deed.

>> that's my point. barak obama i'm sure did not order the irs to go and look at these conservative groups. but the tone is set from the top of the administration. highly parmesan, highly political, win at all cost. barak obama did not tell that sort of outside advocacy group to call mitt romney a murderer. >> neil: let me ask you this. >> they still did. >> neil: looking at the market through these revelations and allegation, why do your friends on wall street seem to be either ignoring this or saying -- or buying on this on the idea it might stymie the president's spending plans? what's going on? >> i think the markets are reacting to other things. watergate clearly, when it was happening, i saw the chart you showed with teddy, it was a national crisis. imparalleled the presidency. it's not even close. there is other issues. we have a much -- >> neil: the markets seem to be saying it won't be that. >> by the way, the fed is printing money. >> neil: moving on. very true. >> for the market. maybe not for the economy. here is one thing, the deficit

is shrinking. you sit around with green eye shades all the time talking about how we need to cut stuff. yeah, we do. but when the economy grows, which it's doing, guess what happens? the deficit shrinks. >> neil: but that doesn't -- >> i agree. but i'm telling you -- >> neil: this what makes -- >> our number one issue should not be green eye shades of cut this, tea party, let's not have anything. let's not spend money on anything. >> neil: our number one issue is -- >> get people work. >> neil: absolutely. but police the money coming in and make sure more money doesn't go out. >> i agree with that. but first and foremost, people got to go to work. when people go to work, th pay taxes and the deficit goes down. >> neil: any given day, you're like patty hearst. >> i'm a riddle. >> neil: exactly. he's great. he's my buddy. meanwhile, is holder a liar? douglas brinkly says it doesn't matter.

he should just go and maybe eric holder is just the starter. because one of the world's most respected historians says it's time for the president to do something historic and heroic and do something about this mess. with me at 8 on the network where we just don't cover business, we get in front of the issues like charlie's issues and give them the business. only i don't curse when i say it never mind the historian who says holder should go, a whole lot of questions sleeping? sleeping? just wanted to check and make sure that we were on schedule. the first technology of its kind... mom and dad, i have great news. is now providing answers families need. siemens. answers.

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if the fbi got a heads-up from russia that you have a radicalized terrorist on your hands, they should not have had to give anything else whatsoever. that should have been enough. >> the records, the telephone

records would not disappear if the a.p. had been notified. they were in the possession of the phone companies never at risk for disappearing. how could it ever be the case? >> there doesn't seem to be any acceptance of responsibility in the justice department. >> the revelation obviously is disturbing because any display of political bias by the irs is outrageous. >> just answer my question because i'm out of time, i'm sorry. just answer my question. >> you are a highly trained lawyer and you know what the phrase civil right means. and when you say that you have a civil right to citizenship when you have broken the law to come to the country, that comment has consequences and surely you have to know that. >> all right. you saw that gentleman there. he's with us now. south carolina republican craig dowdy. congressman, what did you think

of what you were hearing or maybe not hearing from the attorney general? >> neil, five minutes is tough to unlock the mysteries of the world in. but if you gauge based on the diversity of the questioning that the attorney general was subject to, there are a lot of issues with the department of justice. several of my colleagues expressed a lack of confidence in the justice. and for a guy who used to work there, it's heartbreaking at one level because that's the one entity that you all want to be able to trust. but the reality is mr. holder, while an effective witness in some regards, had a lot of explaining to do on a plethora of issues. >> the irs -- we're hearing the acting irs commissioner is not going to plead the fifth on friday when he testifies. of course, the issue that he knew of nothing like what was

going on when he spoke a little more than a week ago. what do you make of that and how big the irs thing is? >> the irs thing is huge, neil, because it goes to the foundation of who we are. our framers went to great lengths to protect minority views, great lengths to protect the voice of the minority. and when you are singled out, whether it's for a criminal prosecution or tax status or being audited, you have a different ideology than the party in power. but that is devastating for our republic. so i was happy to hear a lot of our colleagues on the other side of the aisle also speak about the irs and the a.p. issue much more so than benghazi and fast and furious. but if you want bipartisanship, you're going to love the irs investigation and the a.p. investigation because all members are outraged on both counts. >> we're getting word right now the president is meeting behind closed doors at the white house with top officials. i don't know who else.

pardon me if i don't have all the details here. but he is meeting with the top officials who oversea the irs. what do you want to see or hear from the president? >> well, i want a full-throated outrage. i don't want it qualified -- he speaks sometimes in kind of a hesitating manner. i would a full-throated indictment and a promise, as boehner did this morning -- we're not interested in retirements and forced ousters. we're interested in people going to jail because it does threaten the foundation of our system of government when you single people out simply because you disagree with them. neil, imagine when i was a prosecutor if i just prosecuted democrat bank robbers or just prosecut prosecuted democratic shoplifters. imagine the outrage. how can a federal government

single people out because they disagree with their political ideology. and this is the group that's going to administer obama care? what i want from him is a promise of swift, certain consequences for anyone who did it or had responsibility to oversee it. >> congressman, thank you for taking the time. i know you've had a busy day. we appreciate it. >> yes, sir. >> we want to bring you up to speed. as the congressman pointed out, this was part of a bipartisan sort of attack right here on the attorney general. they all want to know what the heck was happening, what was going on, including charlie who wants to wrangle with the administration over this. charlie rangel. all you have to do is call. [ female announcer ] call and sign up for good hands roadside assistance today. [ dennis ] are you in good hands?

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i'm andrea tantaros along with bob beckel, eric bolling, dana perino and greg gutfeld. it's 5:00 in new york city. and this is "the five." it had to hurt to wake up at the white house this morning and see this on the front page of "usa today." the big headline above the fold, "irs gave a pass to liberals" referring to one of three scandals threatening the administration. and that's just the beginning. when brian williams is talking watergate, jon stewart stops covering for you and even tax cheat charlie rangel won't stick up for you, things are not lki